[I. CALL TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCE A QUORUM PRESENT] [00:00:08] WELCOME TO THE CITY OF SALINAS PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MONTHLY MEETING. IT IS JUNE THE 18TH AT 5:01 P.M. AND WE HAVE A QUORUM. SO WE'LL START WITH ROLL CALL. JASON LUMMER. SEAN BANE. BRIAN POCHE. RYAN SAMUELSON. DANIEL TRIGO. ALAN UPCHURCH. ALL RIGHT. FORUM CONFIRMED. SO IF YOU'LL JOIN ME, WE WILL SALUTE THE UNITED STATES AND TEXAS FLAG. ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. FLAG, PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THEE. AS ONE SAFE FOR GOD, ONE INDIVISIBLE. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL NOW MOVE INTO THE OPEN FORUM. THE OPEN FORUM IS FOR INFORMATION ONLY. IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK, PLEASE SIGN ONE OF THE SPEAKER CARDS AND PRESENT TO THE STAFF. PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. THE P AND Z CAN TAKE NO ACTION. NO CHARGES AND OR COMPLAINTS WILL BE HEARD AGAINST ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL OR EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY THAT ARE PROHIBITED BY LAW. PLEASE NOTE ANYONE WISHING TO FURNISH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WITH COPIES SLASH HANDOUTS REGARDING THEIR ITEM OF INTEREST MUST PROVIDE SEVEN COPIES AND PRESENT THEM TO THE STAFF FOR DISTRIBUTION TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. SO OPEN FORUM IS OPEN. IF THERE WAS ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK. ALL RIGHT. NO TAKERS ON THE OPEN FORUM. SO WE'LL CLOSE THAT AND PROCEED TO THE WORK [III. WORKSESSION] SESSION. AT T ALL RIGHTY. WE ARE BACK. AND SO WE ARE GOING TO MOVE THE [V. CONSENT AGENDA] PRESENTATION SECTION TILL THE END OF THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT AGENDA AND THE MEETING MINUTES APPROVAL FROM LAST MEETING. SO LOOK FOR A MOTION A MOTION TO APPROVE. OH. WE HAVE TO DO IT ON THERE. RIGHT. YEAH. NOT THE MOTION PART. YEAH. SECOND. I'LL SECOND. SUPPOSED TO COME UP. DO I HAVE TO GO TO EVOKE SINCE MY VOTING SESSION. I'VE NEVER HAD TO DO ANYTHING. PAST SIX ZERO MOTION TO APPROVE AND THEN VOTE NO. ALRIGHT, SO THEN WE'RE MOVE [VI.A. Conduct a public hearing to consider and act upon a request for a Specific Use Permit (SUP) to allow for a Child Care Center, Primary use on approximately 2 acres; generally located 580 feet west of Legacy Dr and approximately 1,000 feet north of Frontier Parkway, within the City Limits. (Lightbridge Academy Daycare — Specific Use Permit) ] ON TO OUR PUBLIC HEARING SLASH ACTION ITEMS. AND OUR FIRST ITEM AND ONLY ITEM IS ITEM A, WHICH IS CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER AND ACT UPON A REQUEST FOR A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT. SUP TO ALLOW FOR A CHILD CARE CENTER PRIMARY USE ON APPROXIMATELY TWO ACRES. GENERALLY LOCATED 580FT WEST OF LEGACY DRIVE AND APPROXIMATELY 1000FT NORTH OF FRONTIER PARKWAY WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS. THIS IS THE LIGHT BRIDGE ACADEMY DAYCARE. SUP. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION WHERE THE STAR IS LOCATED ON THE MAP. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS GENERALLY LOCATED 580FT WEST OF LEGACY DRIVE AND APPROXIMATELY 1000FT NORTH OF FRONTIER PARKWAY. AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S KIND OF AN INTERIOR OFF OF LEGACY. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY TWO ACRES. THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS AND HAS AN EXISTING ZONING FROM 2020 THAT ALLOWS FOR MIXED USE. THE APPLICANT DESIRES TO OPERATE A DAYCARE. THE ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIRES A CHILD CARE CENTER PRIMARY USE TO FIRST OBTAIN A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FROM THE CITY COUNCIL TO LEGALLY OPERATE IN A MIXED USE AREA. THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOES NOT REQUIRE AN SUP FOR CHILD CARE CENTERS IN [00:05:03] COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. AN SP IS REQUIRED OF LAND USES THAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE MAY ALLOW, BUT USES THAT ARE ALSO SCREENED AND ESPECIALLY APPROVED FOR SITUATIONAL SUITABILITY. THE PURPOSE OF AN SUP REQUIREMENT IS TO DETERMINE THE APPROPRIATENESS OF A PROPOSAL. THE CITY HAS BROAD DISCRETIONARY APPROVAL OF THE REQUESTED SUP. HERE'S THE SITE PLAN THEY HAVE SUGGESTED. AS YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE CUL DE SAC IS. RIGHT BEHIND THAT, THERE'S KIND OF A GAP BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND WHETHER PROPERTY LINE STARTS. I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IS HOA PROPERTY. SO AND THEY WILL HAVE A SCREENING WALL THAT COMES UP A LITTLE BIT TO SCREEN SOME OF THOSE HOUSES. THIS IS THEIR FACADE PLANS. THEY MEET ALL OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES. THE SUBJECT PROPERTIES BASED ZONING IS MIXED USE ZONING REQUEST IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN. MODERN DESIGN STANDARDS ENSURE AN ATTRACTIVE PROJECT. THE PROPOSED LOCATION IS AN INTERIOR PAD SITE AND DOES NOT OR. AND NOT ON A FRONTAGE PAD SITE. THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION WILL BE CONSIDERED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AT ITS REGULAR MEETING IN JULY, AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL AS PRESENTED. I DO WANT TO POINT OUT WE DID HAVE ONE LETTER IN OPPOSITION STATING THE CONCERNS OF LOSS OF OPEN SPACE VIEW AND PROPERTY VALUE, PRIVACY AND NOISE CONCERNS, AND TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND SAFETY. ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANOTHER PRESENTATION, BY THE WAY? ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. SO THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. WE WILL OPEN THAT AT IS 5:22 P.M. AND I DO HAVE A SPEAKER CARD HERE FROM MR. ARONSON. I'M SORRY, I CAN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE MY OWN LAST NAME. DON'T WORRY. HI. MY NAME IS SATAN. SO I LOCATED RIGHT BEHIND THIS PROPOSAL. SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK, LIKE, WILL THE DEVELOPER BE ENFORCER TO CONSTRUCT A SOLID MASONRY PRIVACY WALL OR A PLANT MATURE EVERGREEN CANOPY ALONG THE ENTIRE NORTHERN SIDE BOUNDARY ACT AS A VISUAL AND SOUND BARRIER FOR FOR MY BACKYARD AND THE TRAFFIC AND ACCESS RESTRICTIONS. HOW THERE IS A KANSAS CITY GUARANTEE THAT ALL THE VEHICULAR TRAFFIC, PARENT DROP OFF ZONES, AND PEDESTRIAN ACCESS WILL BE STRICTLY LIMITED TO THE SOUTH SIDE VIA SOUTH LEGACY DRIVE AND WEST FRONTIER PARKWAY, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PEDESTRIAN GATE GATES OR CUT-THROUGH ACCESS CONNECTING TO THE RESIDENTIAL STREETS TO THE NORTH AND EAST. AND WILL THE CITY MANDATE THAT THE COMMERCIAL DUMPSTER ENCLOSURE BE LOCATED ON THE SOUTHERN AND THE WESTERN QUADRANTS OF THE SITE, AWAY FROM THE NORTHERN RESIDENTIAL BORDER, TO PREVENT EARLY MORNING NOISE, PISTON ODORS AND. THE LAST WOULD BE ON THE. IN THE CITY EXPLICITLY RESTRICT ALL GROUND MOUNTED HVAC UNITS OR THE REFRIGERATION COMPRESSIONS AND 247 COMMERCIAL MECHANICAL UNIT TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY FACING THE COMMERCIAL ACCESS ROADS SOUTH LEGACY DRIVE SO THEY ARE NOT PLACED IN THE NORTHERN CORNER NEAR THE RESIDENTIAL FENCE LIMITS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THERE ANSWERS ANY OF THAT OR. YES. SO IN TERMS OF THE SITE LAYOUT AND CONCEPT PLAN, THESE ARE CONCEPT PLANS. THE LAYOUT OF THE PROPERTY WILL BE REVIEWED FOR CONFORMANCE WITH ALL OF SOLANA'S DESIGN STANDARDS AT TIME OF PERMITTING. THE QUESTION BEFORE THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING IS JUST THE LAND USE. SO DO WE WANT A CHILD CARE CENTER IN THIS LOCATION OR NOT? THINGS OF EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, PAVING, DRAINAGE, LIGHTING, ALL THE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE IMPACTS OF A DEVELOPMENT. THOSE ARE REGULATED AT THE TIME OF PERMITTING. SO WHEN THOSE WHEN WHEN THE PROJECT COMES IN FOR [00:10:01] FOR A PERMIT FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT, STAFF WILL AT ADMINISTER THE DESIGN REGULATIONS AT THAT TIME. I THINK THE THE OTHER QUESTIONS WERE TRAFFIC. I MEAN, THE THE PROPOSED ACCESS IS AT A MEDIAN BREAK, WHICH IS IDEAL FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR SUCH A LAND USE AND SCREENING. YES. THANK YOU CRAIG. SCREENING SCREENING DOES APPLY. SO AGAIN, AT TIME OF PERMITTING STAFF WILL BE ABLE TO. HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO HANDLE THAT WITH THE HOA LOT THERE. I'M SURE IT'S COVERED IN THE DRC MEETING. OKAY. I MEAN IT'S KIND OF WEIRD SITUATION, BUT IT IS IT IS. DO YOU REMEMBER WE HAVE THE CASE MANAGER HERE. OKAY. YEAH. BASICALLY THE RETAINING WALL IS GOING TO GO ALONG THEIR PROPERTY PROBABLY UP ABOUT THREE HOUSES GIVE OR TAKE WAS WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN DRC BECAUSE THAT IS VERY EXPANSIVE AREA OF HOA THERE. CURRENTLY THERE'S NOTHING ON IT OTHER THAN LAND. IT'S USED BASICALLY FOR A DOG PARK WALKING AREA. OKAY. THANK YOU. ONE MORE THING TO WHEN THE OTHER PROPERTIES ARE BUILT, THEY'LL HAVE TO CONTINUE THE WALL UP. SO WHEN THEY DEVELOP. THANK YOU. ANY MORE QUESTIONS? OKAY, MA'AM. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER SPEAKERS ON ITEM A? NO TAKERS. AND WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 5:26 P.M. AND I'LL OPEN IT UP TO THE COMMISSION FOR ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. CONCERNS, OR IF THERE IS NONE, THEN I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. MOTION BY BAIN. SECOND POST. WE'LL WAIT FOR OUR LITTLE. ALL RIGHT. MOTION CARRIES SIX ZERO ON ITEM A, AND WE WILL NOW CIRCLE BACK TO PRESENTATIONS. AND WE'LL START [IV.A. Presentation of the 2025 Tree City USA & Growth Award. ] WITH PRESENTATION A. IT'S THE 2025 TREE CITY, USA AND GROWTH AWARD. GOOD EVENING. SALINA HAS AGAIN RECEIVED TREE CITY USA RECOGNITION. THE AWARD IS PRESENTED BY THE ARBOR DAY FOUNDATION TO COMMUNITIES THAT LEVERAGE URBAN FORESTRY TO ENHANCE THE LIVABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY OF THEIR LOCAL AREA. THE GROWTH AWARD IS PRESENTED TO PARTICIPATING TREE CITY, USA COMMUNITIES THAT DEMONSTRATE HIGHER LEVELS OF TREE CARE AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. DURING THE CALENDAR YEAR, SALINA OFFERS SEVERAL PROGRAMS RELATED TO TREES, INCLUDING EDUCATION, PERMITTING, AND TREE REMOVAL. THIS IS THE CITY'S SEVENTH TIME TO BE NAMED TREE CITY, USA, AND THE SIXTH TIME TO RECEIVE THE GROWTH AWARD. WE JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO PRESENTATION B, THIS IS [IV.B. Discussion regarding Water Conservation. ] GOING TO BE A DISCUSSION REGARDING WATER CONSERVATION. GOOD EVENING. SO WATER IS A TRENDING TOPIC OF CONCERN FOR THE COMMUNITY. IT WAS AN ITEM AT THE COUNCIL'S STRATEGIC PLANNING RETREAT LAST SUMMER AND THIS UPCOMING SUMMER. AND THERE IS A MULTI-PRONGED APPROACH. THE CITY'S ADDRESSING WATER THROUGH INCLUDING CONSERVATION AND ENFORCEMENT PRESENTATIONS, GIVING IN JANUARY AND OF LAST SUMMER. THERE'S EDUCATION, OUTREACH AND AWARENESS EFFORTS. THERE'S ALSO EXPLORATION OF NEW WATER SOURCES AND EXPANDED SUPPLY. THERE'S ALSO INFRASTRUCTURE CAPACITY IMPROVEMENTS CONSTANTLY BEING MADE BOTH TO STORAGE AND TO JUST THE, YOU KNOW, THE LINES IN BETWEEN. AND THEN ALSO THERE'S REGULATORY EFFORTS TO REDUCE WATER DEMAND, SUCH AS THE MEDIAN LANDSCAPE PATTERN BOOK ADOPTED JUST LAST WEEK. IN FEBRUARY OF 26, THE CITY APPROVED A CONTRACT WITH FREESE AND NICHOLS TO COMPARE SALINE WATER ORDINANCES AND PRACTICES AGAINST THAT OF BENCHMARK CITIES AND TO PROVIDE [00:15:03] RECOMMENDATIONS FOR UPDATES. THIS IS THE TIMELINE WE EXPECT TO HEAR COUNCIL'S FEEDBACK NEXT MONTH, AND THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, RESULT IN ORDINANCE CHANGES ONGOING THEREAFTER. IN TERMS OF POLICY, THIS GIVES A LOT OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO ESTABLISH THE REGIONAL STANDARD FOR RESPONSIBLY MANAGING WATER RESOURCES THROUGH DEVELOPMENT DESIGN THAT LIMITS WATER USAGE AND MODELING THE BEHAVIOR IN ITS OWN PROJECTS. CURRENTLY, THERE'S NO OTHER CITIES THAT ARE TRULY TAKING A XERISCAPE DESIGN APPROACH, OR EVEN CONSIDERING ONE. THERE'S ORDINANCE UPDATES, EDUCATING ON DESIGN OPTIONS, PERMITTING, AND CONSTRUCTION. IT'S NOT OVERNIGHT. EVEN IF WE GO FULL BORE WITH OUR POLICY BALANCE AND APPROACH, IT'S NOT AN OVERNIGHT CURE. XERISCAPE DESIGN IS GOING TO BE COSTLY. THE DEVELOPMENT AND BUILDER COMMUNITY IS ANTICIPATED NOT TO BE BROADLY IN SUPPORT OF THESE, OF ANY REGULATIONS THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE, YOU KNOW, NORMAL PATTERN. AND WE DO HAVE A SURVEY THAT WENT OUT THIS WEEK TO FORMALLY GAUGE THEIR INPUT. SO CODES THAT REGULATE WATER AND LANDSCAPING INCLUDES ZONING, SUBDIVISION ENGINEERING, DESIGN STANDARDS AND OTHERS. REGULATIONS ALREADY DO ALLOW FOR XERISCAPE DESIGN OPTIONS. THEY ALLOW FOR NATIVE AND ADAPTED PLANTS AND DROUGHT THAT ARE DROUGHT TOLERANT. BUT OUR REGULATIONS ALSO REQUIRE IRRIGATION. SO THERE'S A YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT WHAT'S MANDATORY AND COMPULSORY VERSUS WHAT'S OPTIONAL. AND THE CONSULTANT'S PRESENTATION AND FINDINGS WERE INCLUDED IN THE PACKET FOR THE COMMISSION'S REVIEW. IN TERMS OF THE OVERVIEW OF IRRIGATION, APPROXIMATELY 50% OF WATER USAGE DURING PEAK SUMMER HEAT IS OUTDOOR IRRIGATION. SO THE ACTUAL TRUE WATER DEMAND OF THE CITY. WE HAVE PLENTY OF WATER FOR. IT'S JUST THAT THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE PLENTY OF WATER FOR NORMAL DEMAND, PLUS PEAK SUMMER IRRIGATION. THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THE CONCERN IS OVER. SO DRIP IRRIGATION, SUCH AS THE LONG FOUNDATIONS AND BUBBLERS ON TREES THERE, THEY ARE BOTH EXISTING EXEMPTIONS TO CONSERVATION RESTRICTIONS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE CITY HAS BEEN REQUIRING BUBBLERS ON TREES SINCE 2017. SO MOST OF THE TREES IN THE CITY HAVE BUBBLERS ON THEM, AND BUBBLERS ARE LOW WATER BY NATURE, OR AT LEAST BY THE REGULATIONS. SO THE KEY TAKEAWAYS ARE THAT IT'S NOT THE TREES, BUT THE GRASS. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY EVEN THE GRASS. IT'S SPECIFICALLY THE WATERING OF THE GRASS. DURING THE PEAK SUMMER THAT USES MOST OF THAT CAUSES THE THE OVERUSE OF THE WATER. SO AN IMPROVED PLANT LIST ALONE WITHOUT ADDRESSING IRRIGATION DOES NOT NECESSARILY CONSERVE WATER. IF YOU PLANT A BUNCH OF YUCCAS OR EVEN GRAVEL AND STILL HAVE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS THAT WATER THE GRAVEL, YOU'RE STILL USING WATER. SO COUNCIL ADOPTED THE MEDIAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND EARLIER IN JUNE, COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF IN JANUARY TO EXPLORE HOW THE XERISCAPE DESIGN WITHIN THE MEDIAN GUIDELINES COULD BE EXTENDED TO ALL FUTURE CIP PROJECTS AND CITY FACILITIES. THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE, JUST IN SUMMARY, IS REPLACING TURF GRASS AND ITS ASSOCIATED IRRIGATION WITH DECORATIVE AGGREGATE OPTIONS, NUMBER OF TREES AND SHRUBBERY AND DECORATIVE GRASSES, YOU KNOW, WOULD NOT BE REDUCED, THE CONSULTANTS FORECASTED APPROXIMATELY 60% WATER SAVINGS FROM THE MEDIAN DESIGN GUIDELINES OVER TIME. IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE XERISCAPE DESIGN IS NOT NECESSARILY FEWER PLANTS, JUST SIGNIFICANTLY LESS GRASS AND IRRIGATION. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF POLICY QUESTIONS, SOMEWHAT INTERACTIVE. YOU CAN YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND PROVIDE YOUR RESPONSES TO STAFF NOW OR SAVE THEM FOR THE END. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN THE PRESENTATION. SO ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS WE HAVE IS SHOULD THIS AND SOME OF THESE ARE VERY EASY TO ANSWER, SOME ARE MORE THOUGHT PROVOKING, SOME MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, EXTRACT DIFFERENCES OF OPINION. AND THAT'S OKAY. WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED A UNANIMOUS RESPONSE ON EVERY ITEM. BUT SHOULD THE CITY'S APPROVED PLANT LIST BE UPDATED TO REMOVE WATER THIRSTY OPTIONS SUCH AS MAGNOLIAS, HOLLIES, ETC. THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE MEDIAN DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR ROADWAY MEDIANS WAS TO USE MORE DROUGHT TOLERANT PLANTS, SUCH AS YUCCAS AND THOSE TYPE OF PLANT SPECIES. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT ANY HOUSE OR ANY PROJECT, THERE'S USUALLY A LOT OF HOLLIES AND A LOT OF BUSHES AND TREES THAT DO [00:20:02] REQUIRE MORE WATER THAN SOME OF THE MORE DROUGHT TOLERANT OPTIONS. SO IS THAT SOMETHING THE COMMISSION WANT, WANT TO UPDATE? FIRST QUESTION THAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS WHAT ARE OUR NEIGHBORS DOING? RIGHT? DO WE DO WE WANT TO? I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE EXPLORE AND SEE WHAT THE SURROUNDING AREA DOING. CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO GO REMOVING THINGS THAT MAKE US STAND OUT. AS YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME FUNNY FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME INTO OUR CITY, COME IN AND A LOT OF TIMES PROBABLY WON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS. IT FEELS DIFFERENT IF WE START PUTTING ROCK DOWN EVERYWHERE AND, YOU KNOW, GETTING RID OF TREES THAT ARE IN EVERY CITY AROUND HERE, DOES THAT STAND OUT? DOES THAT HAVE A BAD FEEL TO IT? I DON'T KNOW, BUT POTENTIALLY SO. AND THEN THE NEXT QUESTION IS. WHAT'S THE COST TO THE END USER? WE GO TO A DRASTIC CHANGE IN REQUIREMENT BECAUSE. I THINK ALL OF THESE OPTIONS CONSERVE WATER ARE GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE. AND WHAT'S THE IMPACT AS AS THE CITY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO. OCCUR? RIGHT. WE KNOW DOING THAT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION FOR SURE. I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOU GUYS FEEDBACK. WELL, I'LL JUST I'LL JUST GO AT THE, AT THE STRAIGHT TECHNICAL PART OF IT. AND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE STATE BY IRRIGATION LICENSE DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB. AND, AND THEY ALREADY REQUIRE MASTER VALVES SO THAT THERE'S NO WATER IN THE MAIN LINE UNLESS THE CONTROLLER IS RUNNING, WHICH. SO IF THERE'S A PIPE BREAK OR WHATEVER, IT'S NOT JUST FLOWING WATER. THEY ALREADY REQUIRE SHRUB BEDS TO BE DRIP IRRIGATION. THERE'S NO SPRAYS ALLOWED IN SHRUB BEDS ANYWAY. SO IN IN RESPONSE TO THE PLANT SELECTIONS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU IF YOU HAD A BED FULL OF HAWTHORNS OR A BED FULL OF YUCCAS, THE DRIP IRRIGATION STILL GOING TO RUN FOR TEN MINUTES, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO SET IT AT. SO I'M NOT SO SURE THE PLANTS REALLY MATTER. BUT YOU KNOW, TURF GRASS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AT THE TOP OF THE LIST. AND BUT IF YOU HAD 1000FT■S OF, OF SOD DELAY OR 1000FT■!S OF FABRIC AND, AND RIVER ROCK, THE COST DIFFERENCE IS, IS SUBSTANTIAL. SO, YOU KNOW, BEFORE IT WAS ALWAYS A, OKAY, IS IT CHEAPER JUST TO WATER THE GRASS AND, AND HAVE THAT OR PAY FOR THE ROCK UPFRONT AS A NEW BUILD OR WHATEVER. AND I MEAN, GIVEN THE WATER SITUATION, AT MINIMUM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S MUCH YOU CAN REALLY DO EXCEPT FOR GO AWAY FROM TRADITIONAL SPRAY HEADS AND, AND USE EMPS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, HAVE A MUCH LOWER PRECIPITATION RATE THAT PRETTY MUCH DO A MUCH BETTER JOB THAN THE OLDER, YOU KNOW, HALF NOZZLE SPRAY HEADS OR CALLED MP ROTATORS. THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOW, LOW, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, IT ONLY TAKES LIKE 8 POUNDS OF PRESSURE TO POP UP A POP UP HEAD WITH AN MP AND IT'LL THROW 30FT. SO YOU HAVE LESS HEADS AND PRECIPITATION RATE IS MUCH HIGHER THAN THAN A REGULAR SPRAY HEAD AND IT DOESN'T MISS. SO YOU DON'T LOSE A LOT OF THE WATER TO EVAPORATION AND WIND. AND IT'S NOT SPRAYING ALL OVER THE PAVEMENT WHEN THE WIND BLOWS. AND BUT ANYWAYS, I MEAN, THEY SPRAY MORE LIKE ROTORS, YOU KNOW, LONGER, BIGGER STREAMS. SO THAT'S MY $0.02. I, I THINK THAT I THINK THE AT THE STATE LEVEL, THEY'VE DONE A GOOD ENOUGH JOB WITH WATER CONSERVATION WHEN IT PERTAINS TO IRRIGATION. BUT SOME, SOME PLACES REQUIRE MP A LOT OF OTHER CITIES, THEY DON'T ALLOW THE OLD, THE OLD ADJUSTABLE NOZZLES OR OR SPRAY. SO THAT'S MY $0.02. WELL, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF MANDATING THE CHANGE IN THE PLANT STRUCTURE ON RESIDENTIAL LOTS BECAUSE I THINK THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, IN THE FLOWER BEDS WHERE THE PLANTING FOR THE SHRUBS AND TREES ARE GOING TO BE, WE'VE GOT DRIP LINE AND BUBBLERS TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE. AND THAT'S PRETTY STANDARD, I THINK, THESE DAYS. RIGHT. THE LAWN AREA, I'M CERTAINLY NOT IN FAVOR OF CHANGING THE FRONT YARD TO REQUIRE ZERO SCAPE ROCKS, YOU KNOW, GRAVEL. THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE YARD. I DON'T WANT WE DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE PHOENIX BY ANY MEANS. WE DON'T LOOK LIKE TEXAS. AND I THINK MUCH OF [00:25:03] THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE THESE DAYS, OBVIOUSLY IN THE PARKWAYS AND AROUND THE HOUSES, THE DRIP LINES ARE PRETTY MUCH, I'M ASSUMING THEY'RE AT MY HOUSE AND I'M A FAIRLY NEW HOUSE THAT THAT'S PRETTY STANDARD ON THE ON THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE BUILDING INSPECTION. DO THEY REQUIRE APPROVAL OF THE LANDSCAPE OF AN IRRIGATION PLAN? YEAH. THE IRRIGATION IRRIGATION PLANS ARE REQUIRED. THE INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL LOT, THE. YES. THE THE, I MEAN, EVERY EVERY NEW BUILD ABIDES, AS THE CHAIRMAN MENTIONED TO ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE DRIP LINES REQUIRED FOR BEDS AND BUBBLERS ON TREES. SO THE SAME BUBBLER THAT'S ON A, YOU KNOW, LIVE OAK WOULD BE ON A DESERT. WILLOW WOULD BE ON A MAGNOLIA WOULD BE SAME BUBBLER, SAME AMOUNT OF WATER. I THINK ALL THAT STUFF'S REQUIRED BY STATE LAW AS A AS AN IRRIGATION. SO YEAH, I THINK I AGREE WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. I MEAN, MAYBE YOU COULD GET RID OF SOME OF THE, THE TREES THAT DO THE MOST, BUT THE EXAMPLE YOU USED TO SWITCH FROM LIKE ALL TREES TO DROUGHT, A TOTALLY DROUGHT TOLERANT TREE, I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S MAYBE IT'S GRADUAL OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND SOME KIND OF SAVE A LITTLE HERE, SAVE A LITTLE THERE AND SEE HOW IT GOES. BUT THE BIGGEST THING IS GRASS. SO UNTIL THE MARKET OR THE COUNCIL IS REALLY READY TO GO, THE ARIZONA APPROACH. AND THE TROUBLE IS YOU ASKED ABOUT THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY'RE MOSTLY BUILT OUT AND HAVE THEIR WATER CONTRACT, YOU KNOW, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GO FIND THE WATER CONTRACT. LET'S WORK THAT OUT. WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT. THE TROUBLE IS, YOU KNOW, ORIGINALLY NORTH TEXAS WAS SUPPOSED TO SERVE HALF OF SALINA AND THEY PULLED OUT, YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS COVERED. YEAH. I MEAN, BUT TO CONSERVE THEIR WATER FOR THEIR OTHER CITIES, THEY BASICALLY WON'T COVER SALINA NOW. I MEAN, AND SO THE NEXT SOURCE IS ANOTHER LAKE THAT TAKES 20 YEARS TO BUILD. SO WON'T BE DONE IN TIME. PLUS THE NEXT LAKE IS SO BIG, ONE CITY OR ONE ENTITY CAN'T AFFORD TO BUILD IT. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE STATE HAS KIND OF FAILED, ENCOURAGING ALL THIS GROWTH BUT NOT TAKING CARE OF A REGIONAL WATER SUPPLY. AND ANY WHAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE KEEP WATERING THAT IT COSTS MORE MONEY, AND THEN THEY ALL COMPLAIN ABOUT THE WATER COST. BUT AND THEN YOU HEAR PEOPLE ALL THE TIME, WE SHOULD STOP BUILDING BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ENOUGH EDUCATION OR IF THERE EVER CAN BE, IF IT'S EVEN POSSIBLE. WE HAVE PLENTY OF WATER FOR YOU TO OPERATE YOUR HOUSE, WATER, YOU KNOW, SHOWER, LIVE, DRINK, WASH CLOTHES. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER FOR YOU TO KEEP WATERING YOUR GRASS MORE THAN IT NEEDS. YEAH. I MEAN, THE NEXT QUESTION, BESIDES THE PLANTS ARE THE SECOND QUESTION SHOULD DRIP IRRIGATION AND BUBBLERS CONTINUE TO BE EXCEPTIONS IN THE NEW REGULATIONS? OKAY. SOME OF THESE ARE IT'S NOT IT'S IT'S NOT A IT'S NOT A CHOICE. YEAH. THE STATE MANDATES THAT YOU HAVE TO USE DRIP AND BUBBLERS ON TREES, BUT THEY CAN WATER ANY DAY. WELL, CORRECT. BUT, BUT BY BY THE NORTH TEXAS OR WHOEVER BY THEIR WATER CONSERVATION LEVELS, SUBSURFACE IRRIGATION AND BUBBLERS ARE EXEMPT FROM WATER RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVAPORATE. THEY DON'T. RIGHT. WHATEVER. SO AND UNTIL THEY CHANGE THAT, THEN THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU CAN REALLY DO. YEAH. PLUS IT WOULD BE HARD TO ENFORCE SOME OF THESE POLICY QUESTIONS ARE REDUNDANT. SO WE DO HAVE A LOT OF THEM THOUGH. SO THE NEXT POINT IS THAT XERISCAPE REGULATIONS OFTEN INCLUDE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT'S CALLED FUNCTIONAL AND NONFUNCTIONAL TURF AREAS. THAT DISTINCTION WOULD PROVIDE AN EXCEPTION FOR SPORTS FIELDS, PARKS AND OTHER FACILITIES AREAS NEEDING TURF GRASS FOR THEIR INTENDED FUNCTION, PROHIBITING THE IRRIGATION OF NONFUNCTIONAL GRASS IS A FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT OF XERISCAPE DESIGN. SO IS THIS DISTINCTION, THIS EXCEPTION, IMPORTANT TO INCLUDE WITHIN THE XERISCAPE REGULATIONS, THE ABILITY TO BASICALLY HAVE THE FUNCTIONAL TURF AREAS AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE IRRIGATION, TO THE HOW YOU DEFINE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN FUNCTIONAL AND NONFUNCTIONAL. YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITIONS OUT THERE. I MEAN, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OR HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE IT TO US? TO ME. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS INSTEAD OF REQUIRING XERISCAPING, WHICH BASICALLY SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE A MECHANICAL IRRIGATION SYSTEM ON YOUR GRASS. NOW, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT THE QUESTIONS ON FUNCTIONAL VERSUS NONFUNCTIONAL TURF, SHOULD WE HAVE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO AREAS? SO IF YOU HAVE A SOCCER FIELD THAT'S PAINTED OUT, THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE EXEMPT FROM. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET THE DEFINITION. SO MY FRONT YARD IS NONFUNCTIONAL. CORRECT. WE WILL HAVE DEFINITIONS. THE [00:30:02] DEFINITIONS ARE NOT AVAILABLE THIS EVENING. OKAY. WE ARE COMING. WE ARE COMING BACK. WE ARE COMING BACK. BIG FACTOR RIGHT THERE. YEAH, WE WERE COMING. WE ARE COMING BACK LATER THIS CALENDAR YEAR WITH SPECIFIC RED LINES OF THE ORDINANCES WHERE THE DEFINITIONS WILL BE IN GREATER DETAIL BEFORE WE SPEND TIME, TAXPAYER MONEY ON THE CONSULTANTS, REDLINING, THE ORDINANCES. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE CONCEPTUAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GO AFTER. SO CONCEPTUALLY, DO WE WANT A DISTINCTION, AN EXCEPTION, BETWEEN FUNCTIONAL AND NONFUNCTIONAL TURF AREAS IN CONCEPT, UNDERSTANDING THAT THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT FUNCTIONAL TURF WOULD BE THE AREAS THAT NEED THAT PARKS, YOU KNOW, SOCCER FIELDS, THE AMENITY CENTERS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. WHAT ABOUT OPEN SPACE? LOTS. AGAIN, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS. AND AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S OUR PROBLEM. WE CAN'T REALLY GIVE YOU AN ANSWER BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DANCE AROUND. BUT I ASSUME MY FRONT YARD WOULD BE NONFUNCTIONAL. THE WHICH WHICH QUESTION, WHICH AREA IS MY RESIDENTIAL FRONT YARD WOULD BE NONFUNCTIONAL. WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GETTING TO LATER IN THE PRESENTATION. OKAY. I'M JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S A TERM AND IT'S EASY TO KIND OF HIDE THE THING, BUT. RIGHT. BUT HONESTLY, I THINK IT'D BE EASIER IF YOU HAD TO DO IT. I THINK IT'D BE EASIER TO SAY YOU CAN'T. YOU'RE A GATE GRASS THAN TO BAN GRASS, YOU KNOW, THERE. AND THOSE OPTIONS ARE BEING WE'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS LATER. WE'RE STILL AT THE HIGH ALTITUDE LEVEL, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. WE JUST JUMP RIGHT IN. I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ANTICIPATING THE PRESENTATION. THAT'S THAT'S GOOD. SO AGAIN, IT'S A FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENT TO USUALLY DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SUPPORT TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO DEPENDING UPON THE DEFINITIONS. AND THE DEFINITIONS ARE IMPORTANT. SO LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING THAT OUT. SO COMMUNITIES. SO SEVERAL MASTER PLANNED COMMUNITIES HAVE ESTABLISHED DESIGN BRANDS AND ARE ENTITLEMENTS THAT MIGHT DIFFER FROM THE NEW XERISCAPE REGULATIONS. THINK OF SOME OF THE CAMBRIDGE COMMUNITIES, MUSTANG LAKES, I MEAN SOME VERY LIKE NATIONALLY AWARD WINNING DESIGNS. SHOULD EXISTING COMMUNITIES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE THEIR EXISTING BRAND, OR SHOULD NEW PHASES COMPLY WITH NEW REGULATIONS? I MEAN, THAT'S READY FOR INPUT TYPICALLY. TYPICALLY WHEN A NEW ORDINANCE GOES INTO EFFECT, IT'S THE DATE OF THE ADOPTION. ANY NEW APPLICATION MUST ABIDE. HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS SO CLEAN WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A PROJECT THAT MAY BE 15, 20 YEARS TO BUILD OUT. I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW DRASTIC IT IS. WELL, WELL, AND HOW FAR ALONG, YOU KNOW, LIKE RAMBLE JUST STARTED. SO YOU CAN EXEMPT THEM FOR THE OTHER 18 PHASES. NOW, IF YOU HAVE MAYBE LIKE A MUSTANG LAKES AND HAS ONE PHASE LEFT, MAYBE IT'S NOT SO EXTREME, BUT YOU GOT TO START SOMEWHERE. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY HARD. I MEAN, THAT'S RIGHT. THE QUESTION I HAVE AREN'T THEY VESTED ONCE THEY GET A SITE PLAN, AREN'T THEY VESTED BY THE REGULATIONS THAT AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THERE ARE THINGS YOU VEST INTO AND THERE'S THINGS YOU DO NOT VEST INTO. AND WITHOUT PUTTING JULIA ON THE SPOT, I BELIEVE LANDSCAPING IS SOMETHING YOU DO NOT VEST INTO. THAT'S THAT'S SPECULATION. OKAY. WE'LL GIVE JULIE TIME TO THINK. OKAY. SO SOUNDS LIKE WE IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE. THAT'S SOMETHING THE GUIDELINES NEED TO GIVE GUIDANCE ON. THEN ALSO, SHOULD FUTURE AND EXISTING DEVELOPMENT BE ELIGIBLE FOR AN EXCEPTION IF THEY. AND THIS IS AGAIN, HOA AREAS LARGELY. IF THEY DESIGN THE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS TO DRAW WATER FROM ALTERNATIVE WATER SOURCES SUCH AS DETENTION, RETENTION PONDS, WELLS OR RECLAIMED WATER SOURCES. IS THAT. SHOULD THAT BE. MAKE A COMMUNITY ELIGIBLE FOR EXCEPTIONS IF THEY'RE NOT USING THE CITY'S POTABLE WATER FOR THEIR IRRIGATION? YES. WELL, ACCORDING ACCORDING TO THE ACCORDING TO THE STATE, IF THEY'RE NOT USING YOUR WATER, YOU CAN'T MANDATE WHAT THEY DO WITH IT. SO HOWEVER, I KNOW I LIVE I LIVE IN MUSTANG LAKES. IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, THEY HAVE DRAWN WATER FROM THE CITY'S SYSTEM TO FILL THEIR LAKES BECAUSE THEY THEY WENT DRY OR THEY WENT BELOW THE LEVEL. SO THERE IS THAT PROBLEM, AND I AGREE THAT THEY SHOULD BE. IF THEY'RE DOING LANDSCAPING, THEY SHOULD PROVIDE THEIR OWN WATER SOURCE. BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A POTENTIAL THAT THEY WILL BE NEEDING TO DRAW WATER FROM THE CITY SOURCE. ALL RIGHT. SHOULD FUTURE COMMUNITIES BE COMPELLED TO SECURE ALTERNATIVE WATER SOURCES FOR IRRIGATION PRIOR TO DEVELOPMENT? WE WE HAVE LANGUAGE ON THAT IN THE ORDINANCES TODAY, BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN STRICTLY ENFORCED. SO IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE STRICTER, MORE STRICT ABOUT ENFORCING COMPULSION ON THIS? WELL, I MEAN, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE, BUT I KNOW LIKE MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD IN PARKSIDE, THEY DON'T HAVE I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE ANY [00:35:01] WELLS. AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINTS FROM THE HOA IS HOW MUCH THEY HAVE TO HOW MUCH THE DUES ARE. AND THE HOA WILL TELL YOU HOW MUCH DOES. THEY HAVE A LOT OF GRASS FOR THE SIZE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SO. I WOULD SAY YES, BUT I YOU STILL HAVE A SIZE. I MEAN, A 200 LOT NEIGHBORHOOD CAN'T AFFORD TO DRILL A WELL. RIGHT. AND I THINK YOUR REGULATIONS FURTHER ON, IT SAYS 500 LOTS. I BELIEVE IT'S I THINK IT'S SIX, 600. IT'S IT'S A LARGER. YEAH. THERE HAS TO BE A CERTAIN SIZE TO MAKE IT MAKE SENSE, BUT I THINK SOME OF THE CONSIDERATION FOR IF THEY'RE USING A RETENTION POND FOR IRRIGATION, IT NEEDS TO BE WALLED BECAUSE THE DRAWDOWN IS GOING TO CAUSE EROSION EVERY TIME. SO THEY'RE GOING TO PULL A FOOT OUT OF 600 TOO MUCH. EVERY TIME THEY DO A PULL ON IT. WE RAN INTO THAT ISSUE OUT IN LAVON, RIGHT. 200. YEAH. BUT THAT THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, BACK AND FORTH HERE. I MEAN, YOU, YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME WHEN YOU AS A DEVELOPER, WHEN YOU COME TO HERE AND WANT TO PUT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT IS QUITE EXPENSIVE. SO WATER ALL THAT GRASS. SO THAT I MEAN, TAKE THAT AWAY. YEAH, THIS IS PROBABLY DON'T WANT THAT. YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S A CATCH 22. THAT DUSTY YOU DO VEST IN LANDSCAPING AND TREE PRESERVATION REQUIREMENTS. SO THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BE WHEN DID THEY VEST. IF SOMEONE DID A ETJ DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND THEN ANNEXED, THEY WOULD HAVE VESTED WHEN THEY DID THEIR AGREEMENT. IF THEY'RE ALREADY IN THE CITY LIMITS, THEY MAY NOT VEST UNTIL THEY PLAT THAT PHASE. FANTASTIC. OKAY, SO MEDIAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, THOSE VEST. I'LL GIVE YOU MORE TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT. SO HOAS AND ALSO I REMEMBER SPEAKING TO THE MICROPHONES, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF FEEDBACK. STAFF'S GOING TO GO BACK AND TRY TO LISTEN TO. SO HOAS, THEY OWN LAND USED IN VARIOUS MANNERS. THERE'S PARKWAYS FLANKING ROADWAYS, THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, THERE'S INTERIOR OPEN SPACE AND POCKET PARKS. LOT OF TIMES, I MEAN, MOST MOST OF THOSE ARE REQUIRED BY OUR OWN REGULATIONS, NEIGHBORHOOD AMENITY CENTERS. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO DETENTION PINES, DRAINAGE AREAS AND JUST OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WHICH OF THE ABOVE AREAS, IF ANY, SHOULD QUALIFY FOR A FUNCTIONAL GOING BACK TO THAT, YOU KNOW, EARLIER DISTINCTION, IF THERE'S A FUNCTIONAL TURF DISTINCTION. WHICH OF THOSE AREAS SHOULD QUALIFY FOR THAT? AND THAT COMES INTO THE KIND OF THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION. BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GUYS HAVE GUIDANCE ON HOW THE CONSULTANTS NEED TO DRAFT THESE RED LINES OF THE ORDINANCES, WHICH AREAS THAT ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE, INCLUDING ROADWAY LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. THAT'S A LOT OF ACREAGE. I MEAN, AND THE OPTION THEN IS TO GO TO ZERO SCAPE PUT IN ROCKS EVERYWHERE. WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE OPTIONS I WANT TO DISCUSS WITH THE COMMISSION AS WE GET KIND OF DRILLING DOWN DEEPER, GETTING, GETTING TO THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, THE OPTIONS WE HAVE, WHETHER IT'S COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, HOA, THE OPTIONS WE HAVE ARE STATUS QUO, HEAVY LANDSCAPING AND IRRIGATION. REPLACE THE IRRIGATED GRASS AREAS WITH DECORATIVE AGGREGATE MATERIAL, WHICH IS VERY COSTLY ON THE FRONT END, BUT SAVES MONEY ON THE BACK END. ALLOW FOR TURF GRASS BUT PROHIBIT IT FROM BEING IRRIGATED. A LOT OF PEOPLE KIND OF THAT. I WANT TO UNPACK THAT ONE FOR A MOMENT. GRASS TO BE IN A HEALTHY CONDITION TYPICALLY REQUIRES IRRIGATION IN THIS IN THIS REGION. IT WILL GO DORMANT IN THE SUMMER, JUST LIKE IT GOES DORMANT IN THE WINTER. THE ONLY TIME GRASS IS NATURALLY GREEN IS TYPICALLY A COUPLE OF MONTHS IN THE FALL, OCTOBER, A COUPLE OF MONTHS IN THE SPRING. MAYBE IT'S NOT. IT'S YELLOW IN THE. NOT ONLY IN THE WINTER, IT'S ALSO YELLOW IN THE SUMMER. IF YOU GET OUTSIDE OF IRRIGATED AREAS. SO THAT THAT I KNOW MCKINNEY, MOST OF THEIR PARKS NEXT TO THEIR SCHOOLS, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY IRRIGATION ON THOSE PARKS. THEY'RE JUST TEN ACRE FIELDS WITH SOME POCKET PARK PARKING LOT AND SOME PLAYGROUNDS AND SOME TREES AROUND THE PERIMETER THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE NOT IN A THRIVING CONDITION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT IRRIGATED. YEAH. I MEAN, WHEN I GREW UP, ALL THE GRASS WENT YELLOW. THAT WAS WE WERE IN TEXAS. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT CHANGED, BUT I THINK THAT THE INITIAL GRASS NEEDS TO BE IRRIGATED TO GET IT ESTABLISHED RIGHT, WHETHER IT BE A TEMPORARY IRRIGATION SYSTEM OR PERMANENT IRRIGATION SYSTEM, IT NEEDS TO BE ESTABLISHED AFTER IT'S ESTABLISHED, LIKE IN MOST OF THE THE MEETING AREAS AND SOME OF THE LARGE OPEN SPACE AREAS, I WOULD AGREE IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IRRIGATED. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED, YOU SAID TURF REPLACE IRRIGATED [00:40:05] GRASS AREAS WITH DECORATIVE AGGREGATE MATERIAL. BUT REALLY, I MEAN, YOU WOULD DO NATIVE PLANTING TOO, RIGHT? I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT GRASS OR ROCKS. IT'S, IT'S TURF GRASS OR NATIVE PLANT MATERIAL WITH SOME AGGREGATE. SO SOME OF THE SMALLER AREAS, YOU COULD AFFORD TO DO MORE BUSHES AND THINGS. BUT IF YOU THINK OF OUR LARGE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS THAT STRETCH FOR MILES, PLANTING EVERY FILLING THAT IN WITH BUSHES WOULD BE VERY COSTLY. WELL, WHAT ABOUT WILDFLOWERS? NATIVE GRASS, YOU KNOW, STUFF YOU SEE OUT THERE WHEN NOBODY BUILDS ANYTHING. OTHER PEOPLE CALL IT WEEDS, BUT. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, BUT IT IS NATIVE GRASS. I MEAN. YEAH, AND THEN THE NEXT OPTION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDER ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS SUCH AS ARTIFICIAL TURF. IF THERE'S ANY DESIRE FOR THAT. AGAIN, I MEAN, WE HAVE A LOT OF AREAS, HOAS, COMMERCIAL, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, EACH OF THOSE BROAD CATEGORIES HAVE SUBCATEGORIES. AND THEY ALL HAVE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME 3 OR 4 OPTIONS. AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR FROM FEEDBACK. WE HEARD EARLIER FROM COMMISSIONER UPCHURCH THAT IF I UNDERSTAND HIM CORRECTLY, HE BELIEVES THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE DOING QUALITY LANDSCAPING IN THE HOA AREAS OF A NEW NEIGHBORHOODS. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IN SOME AREAS, THAT ARTIFICIAL TURF IS APPROPRIATE, MUST BE ALLOWED AROUND AMENITY CENTERS. I JUST WENT THROUGH A SITUATION WITH MY CHURCH IN SALINA, WHERE THE CITY, THE CHURCH WANTED TO PUT IN ARTIFICIAL TURF IN THE FRONT YARD BECAUSE OF THE CONGREGATIONS AND ALL THE ACTIVITIES THAT WERE PLAYING IN THE FRONT YARD, BUT WAS NOT ALLOWED. AND THEY EVENTUALLY GOT APPROVED. BUT TO ME, THAT IS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A GOOD LOCATION FOR ARTIFICIAL TURF. YOU DON'T HAVE TO IRRIGATE IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT BEING TRAMPLED ALL THE TIME BY ALL THE FOOT TRAFFIC THAT'S WALKING BACK AND FORTH. I THINK THERE ARE GOOD LOCATIONS FOR ARTIFICIAL TURF, NOT IN MY FRONT YARD, BUT OTHER LOCATIONS IN COMMERCIAL AREAS. YES. ARTIFICIAL TURF, JUST TO BE CLEAR, IS ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL AREAS FOR PATIOS AND HIGH TRAFFIC AREAS. SO IF IT'S APPROVED UP, IT'S ALLOWED I KNOW. YEAH, RESIDENTIAL WE ALLOW IT IN THE BACKYARD NOW IS THAT WE'RE GETTING TO RESIDENTIAL. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE STAFF IS CLEAR FROM THE COMMISSION ON HOA AREAS. DO WE HAVE ANY SUPPORT FOR REPLACING IRRIGATED GRASS WITH DECORATIVE DECORATIVE, A COMPULSORY MANDATORY WHERE IT MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, IS IT DO WE WANT TO MAKE THAT MANDATORY OR COMPULSORY? WE ALREADY ALLOW FOR THAT OPTION. THE QUESTION IS DO YOU WANT TO DO WE WANT TO IS THAT IS THAT A NEW PARADIGM SHIFT WE WANT TO MAKE WITH HOA AREAS? I THINK I THINK I THINK YOU STAY OUT OF THE THE PEOPLE'S HOMES AND THEIR AND THEIR IMMEDIATE. LET'S JUST SAY RELIEF AREA WHERE THEY WALK AROUND AFTER WORK. THEY DON'T WANT TO LOOK AT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE IN PHOENIX. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN PEOPLE, I MEAN, A PROGRAM THAT GIVES PEOPLE OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, OKAY, IF YOU WANT TURF GRASS, THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. OR IF YOU DO XERISCAPE, YOU CAN DO THIS OR, OR IF YOU WANT TURF, YOU CAN'T DO IRRIGATION. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DRILL A WELL, IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS, YOU KNOW, WE COULD DELIVER, WE COULD MAKE PERMITTING AS LONG AS WE NEED TO. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE STAFF HAS THE BANDWIDTH TO HAVE THAT LEVEL OF WELL, MAYBE IT'S OPTION A AND OPTION B. THERE ARE SOME GRASSES THAT ARE LESS OR MORE DROUGHT TOLERANT THAN BERMUDA, AREN'T THERE? ZOYSIA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I FORGET NOW WHAT IT WAS. A LOT OF THE DROUGHT TOLERANT GRASSES JUST HAVEN'T PROVEN UP IN IN USE, LIKE BUFFALO GRASS WAS ALL THE RAGE 2030 YEARS AGO. OUR SOILS, IT DOESN'T GROW WELL HERE. YEAH, IT TAKES IT ALL DAY LONG. BUT IS THERE CAN YOU DO A CAPACITY FEE IF PEOPLE WANT TO DO GRASS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO GO GET NEW WATER. IT'S KIND OF LIKE AN IMPACT FEE. BUT WE WHEN IT COMES TO ALLOW FOR TURF GRASS BUT PROHIBIT IT FROM BEING IRRIGATED, IS THAT A DESIRABLE OPTION FROM THE COMMISSION'S VIEWPOINT? SO INSTEAD OF IF IT DOESN'T, DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WE HAVE LARGE SUPPORT FOR DECORATIVE AGGREGATE REPLACING IRRIGATED GRASS. WHAT ABOUT JUST TAKING THE IRRIGATION AWAY AND HAVING GRASSY GROUND? WELL, AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER, THE INITIAL. THE INITIAL ESTABLISHMENT OF THE GRASS NEEDS TO BE IRRIGATED RIGHT AFTER IT'S ESTABLISHED, THEN CUT BACK THE IRRIGATION. YEAH. THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION THAT THERE WOULD BE AN ESTABLISHMENT PERIOD WITH TEMPORARY IRRIGATION. OKAY. WE'LL KEEP MOVING ALONG. SO POLICY CONSIDERATIONS, LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. THIS PICTURE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN IS IN PLANO. SO SALON IS LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. THEY ARE WIDER THAN REGIONAL STANDARD. AND LAND [00:45:03] ACQUISITION COSTS ARE HIGH. INSTALLATION COSTS ARE NOT CHEAP. WIDER LANDSCAPE BUFFERS HELP CREATE SPACE FOR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. YOU KNOW, ALONG THE ROADWAYS ARE ALL IS A NETWORK OF WATER AND SEWER LINES AND ELECTRICAL WORK FOR THE MEDIAN LIGHTING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. UNDERGROUND DRAINAGE PIPES, WIDER SIDEWALKS ENHANCE THE CITY'S TRAILS PLAN. SO A LOT OF CITIES PUT A LOT OF THEIR TRAILS PLAN ON THE STREET ROADWAY NETWORK. WE DO BOTH. WE WE DO A LOT OF CREEK NETWORK TRAILS IN ADDITION TO ALL OF OUR ARTERIALS HAVING LARGER, WIDER SIDEWALKS. AND THEN THE PURPOSE OF THE WATER LANDSCAPE BUFFERS WAS TO HELP SOLANA MAINTAIN ITS RURAL FEEL. A LOT OF CONCERN HAS BEEN EXPRESSED REGARDING JUST, YOU KNOW, AS LADA DEVELOPS, HOW DO WE MAINTAIN SOME OF THAT OPEN SPACE AND THAT FEEL AND THEN PUBLIC FEEDBACK DURING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS SUPPORTED WIDER LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. AND ALSO LANDSCAPE BUFFERS HELP ALLEVIATE THE TUNNEL EFFECT OF JUST PUTTING MASONRY WALLS ADJACENT TO THE ARTERIALS. AS YOU SEE IN THE BELOW PICTURE. SO SPEAKING OF, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, SO OUR SIDEWALKS AND LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, WE HAVE A HIERARCHY. SO NEXT TO SIX LANE DIVIDED ROADWAYS, THAT'S PRESTON CUSTER. THE LARGER ONES. WE HAVE 40 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFERS WITH TEN FOOT WIDE SIDEWALKS NEXT TO FOUR LANE DIVIDED ARTERIALS, LIGHT FARMS, WAY SUNSET. WE HAVE 30 FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS WITH TEN FOOT WIDE SIDEWALKS, AND THEN NEXT TO COLLECTORS AND OTHER STREETS, WE HAVE 20 FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS WITH EIGHT FOOT WIDE SIDEWALKS. THE REGIONAL STANDARD, IT VARIES. IT'S ROUGHLY 2010 TO 20FT WITH SIX FOOT WIDE SIDEWALKS. GENERALLY, THERE'S EXCEPTIONS. IF IT'S PART OF A MASTER TRAILS PLAN, IT'S TEN FEET AT LEAST, IF NOT WIDER. AND IF YOU'RE ALONG A LARGER REGIONAL NETWORK, SUCH AS 380, THE D.A. OR TOLLWAY, IT'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST 30FT. SO THERE IS SOME BASIS FOR SALINAS WIDER LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. SO THE QUESTION WE HAVE FOR THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, IF A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK WE HEARD FROM THE DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS AND THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WAS THAT COSTS IS A MAJOR CONCERN FOR INSTALLING AGGREGATE WHERE THERE USED TO BE IRRIGATION, IRRIGATED LANDSCAPE, SHOULD THERE BE ANY REDUCTION OF THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, SUCH AS MAYBE THE BELOW HIERARCHY, WHERE YOU HAVE 40FT NEXT TO THE TOLLWAY AND OUTER LOOP, AND THEN MAYBE 30FT FOR THE DIVIDED ARTERIALS AND 20FT ALONG THE REMAINDER? IS THERE ANY SUPPORT FOR THAT? JUST AS THE CONCERN WAS THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY INCURRING GREATER COSTS WITH INSTALLATION OF THEIR NEW COMMUNITIES, A TEN FOOT STRIP ALONG EVERY ROADWAY IS NOTHING COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHER DEVELOPED LAND. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AS FAR AS FOR AS FAR AS WATER CONSERVATION, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WHERE IT IS. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GOOD THE WAY IT IS TO THE BUFFER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE EDGE OF PAVEMENT OR PARKING LOT OR RIGHT OF WAY. IT TYPICALLY THIS IS ALONG THE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THINK OF THE MASONRY WALL. THEN YOU HAVE ALL THE LANDSCAPING, WHICH IS BUSHES, TREES AND GRASS, TYPICALLY WITH SIDEWALKS. AND THEN YOU EVENTUALLY HIT THE ROADWAY FROM THE BACK, FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY OR THE CURB RIGHT AWAY FROM IT'S FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, RIGHT OF WAY, LINE. YEAH. I MEAN, TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS ON THE 40 FOOT, THERE'S 20 FOOT THAT THEY PUT THE SIDEWALK IN. AND TYPICALLY THE CITY USES ANOTHER 20 FOOT FOR WATER AND SEWER LINES. YEAH. PRESTON ROAD OR SOMETHING. YEAH. YEAH. SO IS THE BOTTOM SOMETHING THE CITY SHOULD CONSIDER OR SHOULD WE KEEP THE CURRENT HIERARCHY, KEEP IT, KEEP IT. ALL RIGHT. SO THIS YEAH. AGAIN, WE SOUNDS LIKE WE ANSWERED THIS, BUT GRASS, SHRUBS AND TREES IS THE PRIMARY DESIGN APPROACH WITHIN THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. WE JUST MENTIONED THAT THE OPTIONS ARE THE SAME. THE OPTIONS ARE THE SAME AS THEY. I MEAN SO WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. THIS WILL BE A RECURRING THEME. WE CAN KEEP THE STATUS QUO, REPLACE THE IRRIGATED GRASS WITH DECORATIVE AGGREGATE OPTIONS FOR LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S A LOT OF LAND. OR IT'LL ALLOW FOR TURF GRASS, BUT MAYBE PROHIBIT IT FROM BEING IRRIGATED AND THEN ALLOW ALTERNATIVE SURFACE SURFACING MATERIAL. AND THEN IF THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS ARE REDUCED IN WIDTH, DOES THAT CHANGE THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE QUESTION? AND IF IRRIGATED FROM AN ALTERNATIVE WATER SOURCE, DOES [00:50:02] THAT CHANGE? THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE QUESTION? SOUNDS LIKE EARLIER IN THE MEETING, THE COMMISSION WAS VERY STRONGLY IN SUPPORT OF ALTERNATIVE WATER SOURCES, BEING EXCEPTIONS FOR DESIGN. ON COMMERCIAL. SO SHOULD COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE FUNCTIONAL TURF EXCEPTIONS IF THEY QUALIFY? SO MANY, MANY AREAS IN COMMERCIAL ARE SMALLER IN NATURE AND WOULD BENEFIT FROM XERISCAPE DESIGN. A LOT OF TIMES YOU SEE LITTLE LEFTOVER PATCHES WHERE YOU HAVE GRASS, IT'S HARD TO MOW. IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S HEAVY TRAFFIC. IT GETS BEAT UP WITH FOOT TRAFFIC. PARKING GUIDELINES ARE A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT. BUT EVEN EVEN WITH THIS PICTURE, YOU SEE THE NEW ISLANDS AND WALMART, THEY DID DECORATIVE AGGREGATE WITH TREES. THE TREES HAVE A BUBBLER, BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING SPRAY HEADS FOR THE GRASS. SO THE ISLAND THAT WOULD BE MEETING NEW XERISCAPE REGULATIONS. HOWEVER, IF YOU LOOK BEHIND THERE, THERE IS A MASSIVE EXPANSION, EXPANSIVE DETENTION POND. AND I MEAN, I HAVE NO I MEAN, THAT'S ROUGHLY THE SIZE OF A FOOTBALL FIELD OF GREENERY THAT WALMART OWNS OR IS ADJACENT AND NEEDED FOR THEIR DEVELOPMENT. HOW DO YOU ROCK THAT? I MEAN, LIKE WHAT WHAT THE QUESTION IS, DO WE STILL HAVE FUNCTIONAL TURF EXCEPTIONS FOR COMMERCIAL AREAS? BECAUSE THERE ARE LARGER AREAS, EVEN ON COMMERCIAL PROJECTS THAT ARE JUST LEFT. AND THEN TODAY THERE ARE A LOT OF TIMES IRRIGATED, NOT ALWAYS, MOST OF THE TIME. DO WE NEED TO ALLOW FOR THEM NOT TO HAVE TO BE IRRIGATED EXCEPT FOR THE TREES, OF COURSE. AND THEN IMPORTANT TO NOTE, THE CURRENT CODE DOES ALLOW FOR AREAS ALONG CREEKS, FLOODPLAINS AND PINES TO REMAIN IN THEIR NATIVE STATE IF THEY QUALIFY, DEPENDING UPON THE LOCATION. I'LL JUST SAY, PER THE T, C, E, Q, A DETENTION OR RETENTION POND IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IRRIGATED. AGREED. YOU CAN, YOU CAN. YOU COULD HAVE A ROW OF HEADS AT THE TOP SPRAYING IN. BUT AS FAR AS THE SLOPES AND THE BOTTOM, IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IRRIGATED. AGREED. YEAH, BUT THAT'D BE A GREAT AREA FOR NATIVE, NATIVE WEEDS. GRASS. YEAH. I MEAN, YEAH, THE TROUBLE IS, THE GENERAL PUBLIC SEES OVERGROWN GRASS AND THINKS MOSQUITOES AND EVERYTHING AND ACTUALLY PRETTY HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT. BUT IT'S HARD TO GET OVER THAT FEAR. RESIDENTIAL HOMES. WE SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST. SO. ANY MAJOR CHANGES? OF COURSE. BUT THE DEFINITION OF MAJOR WOULD BE CONSIDERED A PARADIGM SHIFT FOR THE REGION. NO. THAT WAS ASKED EARLIER WHAT ARE THE REGIONAL CITIES DOING? AND IN TERMS OF XERISCAPE DESIGN, JUST LIKE US, I THINK THEY ALL ALLOW FOR IT, BUT THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR IT. SO ANY ANY STEPS IN THIS DIRECTION WOULD BE SALINA BE LEADING, LEADING THE WAY, SO TO SPEAK. SO WITH THE FOLLOWING. WE'RE LOOKING STAFF IS SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE ON FRONT YARDS, BACK YARDS, MANDATORY, OPTIONAL, YOU KNOW, MANDATORY AND COMPULSORY IS THE SAME. BUT YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE OPTIONS ARE STATUS QUO. WHERE THERE'S GRASS WITH IRRIGATION, WE ALL DRIVE THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND SEE THE HOMES. WE CAN ALLOW FOR TURF GRASS, BUT PROHIBIT THE IRRIGATION OF IT. WE COULD REQUIRE AGGREGATE OPTIONS TO REPLACE THE TURF GRASS. THEN ALSO, WE'RE LOOKING FOR SPECIFICALLY INPUT ON ARTIFICIAL TURF. WE CURRENTLY ALLOW IT IN THE BACKYARDS OR ANYWHERE THAT'S NOT VISIBLE OR OR VISIBLY BLOCKED FROM THE STREET, BUT WE HAVEN'T ALLOWED IT IN THE FRONT YARDS. AND THEN AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR INPUT ON BACKYARD FRONT YARD, OPTIONAL, COMPULSORY, OR IF THERE'S ANY SUPPORT FOR THIS ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES. MY COMMENT WOULD BE THAT IT'S WE STAY THE STATUS QUO, THAT WE ALLOW THE ARTIFICIAL TURF IN THE BACKYARDS, BUT NOT IN THE FRONT YARDS. SO OUR CURRENT CURRENT CURRENT PRACTICE IS MY MY SUGGESTION. I AGREE, I WOULDN'T WHY WOULDN'T YOU? TURF ARTIFICIAL TURF BY CHOICE. I JUST THINK IF YOU GET A HODGEPODGE, YOU WOULD END UP WITH A HODGEPODGE LOOKING DOWN THE STREET. IT WOULD IT WOULD NOT LOOK VERY GOOD. I DON'T THINK MY PERSONAL OPINION SAVES WATER. I THINK YOU'RE NOT LOSING ANYTHING BY NOT BY MANDATING IT. BUT IF YOU ALLOW IT, THEN HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ACTUALLY DO IT? I WOULD SAY A FAIR AMOUNT. AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE IRRIGATION. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE CONCERNS. SPEAKING WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT IS THAT IT'S NOT CHEAP, THAT A SMALL AREA OF MY YARD PRICED FOR IT RECENTLY IS 14 GRAND, AND YOU HAVE TO REPLACE IT EVERY 8 TO 15 ISH. I MEAN, I'VE LOOKED TO YOU GUYS ON WHAT THE ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, TIME PERIOD IS, BUT THAT'S A PRETTY LARGE EXPENDITURE EVERY 8 TO 15 YEARS DEPENDING UPON. AND WHEN IT'S NEW, IT LOOKS GREAT. BUT I MEAN, I, I'VE BEEN IN CITIES WHERE [00:55:03] LET'S TAKE FENCES, FENCES GO IN REALLY NICE. AND THEN WHEN THE CITY BECOMES 20 YEARS OLD, PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME REPLACING THEIR FENCES BECAUSE WHO HAS THE EXTRA $10,000 LAYING AROUND TO FIX THE FENCE? THAT DOESN'T ADD ANYTHING TO THEIR HOUSE EXCEPT GIVE YOU A NEW FENCE. SO I THINK THAT'S THE CONCERN WITH ARTIFICIAL TURF IS WHAT HAPPENS IN TEN, 20 YEARS. YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DO SOME OF THIS STUFF, ARE YOU GOING TO FACTOR IN SOME FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS? YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY FOR COMMERCIAL YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN IRRIGATION METER. AND, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS CONSERVATION CAN CAN COME FROM PRICING ON THE IRRIGATION SIDE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ESSENTIAL WATER USE. SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WATER RATES ON IRRIGATION VERSUS NON IRRIGATION METERS. BUT I ASSUME ON HOUSES IT'S JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO IRRIGATION METERS OR THESE COST PROHIBITIVE. I MEAN IT'S JUST ANOTHER ANOTHER TAP METER. BUT YOU KNOW WE USED TO DO YOU DON'T PAY WASTEWATER ON IRRIGATION METER. YEAH. YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS IN ANOTHER CITY, WE HAD A LOT WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAD INSTALLED IRRIGATION ONLY METER BECAUSE OF THE WINTER AVERAGING COST. THAT REDUCED THEIR COST ON THE ON THE OVERALL WATERING SEWER SYSTEMS. SO I'M JUST PROBABLY NOT A FACTOR ANYMORE. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT'S PRACTICAL, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF BACK TO THE WHOLE, IF YOU WANT TURF, THEN YOU HAVE TO PUT IRRIGATION METER IN AND THE RATES HIGHER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO DRIVE CAPACITY. IT'S GOING TO DRIVE EVERYBODY'S COST UP. WELL, WITH THE CITY REQUIRING A ONE INCH METER, THAT'S PLENTY OF WATER FOR A TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL LOT. YEAH. WELL, I KNOW THAT'S YOU'D HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT IT IF YOU SPLIT THEM. I MEAN, YOU KNOW. YEAH. WITH THAT THAT CONCLUDES STAFF'S PRESENTATION. WE APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION AND INPUT. AGAIN WE APPRECIATE THE THE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK. THE BUILDER AND DEVELOPER COMMUNITY DID RECEIVE SURVEYS EARLIER THIS WEEK. IF YOU GUYS WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE THE SURVEY, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO EMAIL. WE'LL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SHARE THAT OUT. ABSOLUTELY. AND I'M CURIOUS QUESTION, I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL DID ANY RESEARCH LIKE IN ARIZONA WHERE THIS, YOU KNOW, AT ONE TIME THEY DID ALLOW REGULAR GRASS, RIGHT? I, I ASSUME THEY FINALLY DID AWAY WITH IT WHEN THEY REALLY HAD NO CHOICE. I MEAN, I ASSUME, I ASSUME THEY WEREN'T AHEAD OF THE CURVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY. BUT IT'D BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE HISTORY. YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY LITERALLY OUT OF WATER WHEN THEY STARTED PROHIBITING IT. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I THINK. I'D BE SURPRISED IF COUNCIL WANTS TO PROHIBIT GRASS ANYTIME UNTIL IT'S UNTIL IT'S LIKE THERE'S JUST NO OTHER CHOICE. AND I, YOU KNOW, I THINK HISTORY IN ARIZONA WOULD PROBABLY SHOW THAT THE SAME PATTERN. WELL, IT'S REALLY HARD TO BE PROACTIVE WHEN IT'S NOT REQUIRED YET. YEAH. AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE A MATTER OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD START OUT WITH ONE WAY, YOU'D HAVE GRASS, BUT IF YOU GOT TO THE POINT, LIKE STAGE THREE, WHERE THERE'S NO IRRIGATION AT ALL, THEN YOU JUST, IT'S JUST NO IRRIGATION. WELL, THAT MIGHT COME ONE DAY, BUT IT MIGHT PROBABLY, IN THEORY WOULD BE A WHILE. DO WHAT? IT'LL BE A WHILE. OH, YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, IT HAPPENED WHATEVER THAT WAS 2006 EIGHT, WHATEVER THAT WAS. I MEAN, AGAIN, THAT'S MUNICIPAL HAD NO, NO OUTDOOR OR NO GRASS WATERING. AND YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN REMEMBER YEARS AGO, IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ON FIRE. BUT YEAH, IT ALL CAME BACK. I MEAN, YEAH, AND I CAN REMEMBER YEARS AGO IN ANOTHER CITY, AGAIN, WE HAD TO WE HAD ISSUED CITATIONS, IRRIGATION, WATERING WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO. IT GETS TO BE VERY UGLY. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS UNFORTUNATE IS I BET IF YOU LOOKED AT THE TOP 100 USERS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL UNDER WATER RESTRICTIONS, BUT I BET LESS THAN THE TOP 10% USE MOST OF THE WATER. YEAH, MAYBE. WELL, THAT CONCLUDES STAFF'S PRESENTATION. IF YOU GUYS THINK OF ANY INSIGHTS OR ANYTHING, FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO STAFF. HOWEVER, THAT IS FORMAL DISCUSSION HAS CONCLUDED. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.